A Comparison that doesn't make sense: Dodge Challenger R/T vs FR-S

"AthomSfere" (AthomSfere)
03/25/2015 at 22:51 • Filed to: challenger, choices, camaro, fr-s, frs, brz, toybaru, wrx, subaru

I am debating a car purchase, and have narrowed it down (I think) to:

Camaro

Challenger

Toybaru (Probably the FR-S)

WRX

In a desperate attempt to make a choice or at least feel at rest I tried to test drive all four today:

There were not any Camaros to drive, the one yellow 2 SS had keys MIA.

The WRX were out of stock (although I talked them into a rain check for a test drive, supposedly they don't let people test drive new 2015 WRX except in special circumstance...?)

I did drive a 2015 Challenger RT and a 2015 FR-s

First I drove the FR-s. It has been on the list for a long time:

Impressions: It is tiny. The seating position is pretty much fixed and the back seat is a joke at best. It is low to the ground and feels even lower. Oddly, my Civic Si is actually lower on it's 18" wheels and lowered springs than the "rare edition" I looked at, but the FR-s felt like sitting on a picnic blanket, if you had to scoot over to a picnic blanket.

Once I was in the FR-s I was under whelmed for a minute. The wheel felt good, the seats good, the ignition was just like starting any vehicle. I was shown how to pull the little trinket on the shifter to reach reverse (I think all 6 speeds should work like this!) and we were off as I was told how to get to the "little private track".

On the way there I adjust to the very sharp manual transmission and was enjoying the ride. Softer than my Si, but better composed. The exhaust was good enough at this point. Once we hit the track though, holy crap! I hit the Ss and the wide curves and held a good line and the car just begged to go faster, doing 80 around sharp curves it just felt right.

When it was all over, it took every ounce of will power not to yell "take my money!" but I moved on. After of course the salesman thanked me for giving him a fun test drive.

The Challenger (SRT I was told, but I think it was an R/T) was a very different experience. First the things that I was expecting: A push start button that would change my life and a crummy interior.

The push start button was... eh, how do I saw: "A scam". I felt disoriented and out of step with this car. In fact, if it reminded me of any car I have owned it would be my 79 Ford Granada, but bigger.

The parking brake was under the steering wheel, I sat beneath the hood and gauging my position on quick turns felt a bit like a gamble. I loved the drive though, in a weird way. When you shift at the right RPM the exhaust gurgles something fierce, but the rev limiter seems to come far too soon. Where this car excelled was the freeway. I kept glancing down and realizing I was doing 80, 80 felt like 50 in this thing and 50 felt like 40. If I wanted a freeway bruiser, this is it. But I went back to "the track" and the thing just wasn't at home. The stretches where the FR-s felt at home doing 80 felt sketchy at 40 in this. The car just had far to much roll and tossing the wheel back and forth on a straight away reminded me a little too much of that Granada. Even casual cruising there were a couple of times where the feedback from the wheel confused my hands.

As far as materials on the Challenger: No problems for me. Maybe 2015 fixed the issues, or maybe this just really is something I don't care about. Sure the wheel was too large, and the gauges weren't sexy but it was exactly what I would want from a muscle car, functional and it felt well constructed even if the materials weren't great.

So the winner? Considering price and fun the FR-s won by a mile. And to me, even if the FR-s and the Challenger SRT cost exactly the same I would choose the FR-s every time. It was just unholy fun, from the smooth acceleration and great exhaust note at WOT. Will it beat the SRT on a drag strip, not a chance in hell. But the pistol grip shifter on the 6 speed in the Challenger won't ever put the same grin on my face that the FR-s did.

So, what did I miss Oppo?

DISCUSSION (50)

bob and john > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:01

"As far as materials on the Challenger: No problems for me. Maybe 2015 fixed the issues,"

Bingo. cyrsler pretty much re did the interoir or all their cars these past 2 years. You would not BELIEVE the difference it made.

TheHondaBro > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:01

Get a Toyobaru because I'm biased.

PS9 > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:04

Makes plenty of sense. When you have X money to buy one of Y things, said things are competing against each other for your money. People market-wide are making these kinds of comparisons and will compare/buy what they want, categories be damned.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:05

Toyobaru, I saw a black one today, I wanted to try it.

Textured Soy Protein > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:06

Try to find a lightly used Camaro SS 1LE. The Camaro in general isn't as much of a boat as the Challenger, and the 1LE is a pretty great setup. Main downside is it's got shit outward visibility.

AthomSfere > Textured Soy Protein
03/25/2015 at 23:08

Thanks, I am actually sort of torn on this! I am looking at a 1SS (used) or a new or lightly used V6. The fuel economy is sort of worth it and compared to the FR-s still a surplus of power!

Wobbles the Mind > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:09

Not going to wait for more info on the upcoming Camaro? They are becoming so trackable I would imagine the next one will feel like an e92.

AthomSfere > bob and john
03/25/2015 at 23:09

If it was as bad as some of the older 300s then I can, one of the few interiors I have been in and just couldn't believe it didn't pass through some CEO's colon at the factory.

AthomSfere > TheHondaBro
03/25/2015 at 23:10

Hard not to be biased after just testing that thing out!

AthomSfere > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
03/25/2015 at 23:12

So go try it, but first hide all of your forms of currency...

Textured Soy Protein > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:13

I had a Camaro V6 as a rental car shortly after this generation first came out. They offered it as an upgrade for 10 bucks a day extra. The last time before that I had rented a car, I was stuck with a Chrysler Sebring that was terrible, so as soon as the rental car lady named a car that want a Sebring, I jumped at it.

It was a reasonably quick car, nothing mind-blowing since its 300ish hp have 3800ish lbs to push around. Handling was competent if not excellent. But it was really hard to see out of.

If it were me, I would only put up with the horrible visibility in a 1LE or better.

bob and john > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:13

it was worse actually.

AthomSfere > bob and john
03/25/2015 at 23:15

Ew... If the price is right I wonder if I would be OK with that...

AthomSfere > Wobbles the Mind
03/25/2015 at 23:18

Who knows!

I am incredibly impatient with some things, but cars...

The truth of it is though, that FR-s is just soooo perfect (minus the HP rating). And even with 200hp its worth noting not much more than a decade ago the Mustang GT was barely breaking 200hp.

I think the Camaro is the better car, but the FR-s is the more fun car.

Birddog > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:20

Kinja'd!!!

Interesting choice of images.

I really can't see the FrBRZ winning the "Bang for the Buck" contest. But, I haven't had the chance to drive one yet.

It hasn't really set the world on fire, I'm not holding my breath.

AthomSfere > Textured Soy Protein
03/25/2015 at 23:21

As I recall from the '10 2SS I drove back in 2010/11 (just once briefly) the visibility was horrible but not so much worse than say my older 07 Civic Coupe. I think a big part of the problem is it is a big car with the same poor visibility and it adds to the "WTF is going on around me" feeling.

AthomSfere > Birddog
03/25/2015 at 23:32

What can I say, I have a soft spot for my once proud Granada.

Also, thanks for https://books.google.com/books?id=ewEAA…

Honestly on the Toybaru cars: I am not sure if best bang for the buck is right either. It is small, loud, firm and a little bit pricey for what it is. Its materials are well done but not especially nice materials, parts are all made entirely in Japan where the Yen is still far too strong to be competitive. Creature comforts, room for legs in the back, technology are all in N/A area of the industry.

But, it is all pure sports car. It's the Lotus Elise you can still buy brand new $5k cheaper than the Elise was. It is pure fun, and if that is your primary interest (as is mine as of today) then there is no other choice before you get to perhaps certain Porsche/ Lamborghini models.

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:43

Nissan 370Z/Infiniti whatever-its-called?

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/25/2015 at 23:53

G37 would be the 370 in Infiniti form I believe.

And I love this car, always loved the Zs, but two problems:

The car is long in the tooth, and for $30k new starting there are too many better choices (heck even the Hyundai Genesis Coupe has two trims of significant importance, the 2.0T and 3.8)

The 370 seems to have the reliability ratings of a VW/BMW, or worse! And the problems are little things they are that engine!

I love the car, and maybe my numbers are old now but I am not sure I am comfortable with that amazing, sexy little V6.

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/25/2015 at 23:55

CPO S5, CPO M5 or other 3 series? 1M?

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:03

I don't care for Audis, at all. Even the R8 just bores me. I do like the RS4 avant.... But uh, well no.

M5? Vintage? I actually saw one (03 I believe it was) but I would rather not have an out of lease BMW.

new 1/ 3 series: I don't want to act my age and buy a BMW / Luxury vehicle? Honestly I have tossed the idea around and I suppose I owe myself a test drive...

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:05

You are living my dream - because I live here in the city, I do not need a car. I think about this all the time - what would I buy if I suddenly needed a car? Volvo C30? Saab 9-5? S5? S6? You see where my tastes run.

Come to think of it - any of the T Volvos interest you? Might also be worth a test drive. And there's a new SHO. Had a '97 - soft place in my heart for that car.

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:18

And I would love to live and work in Manhattan!

Does Volvo still sell anything with a manual? I am never going back to auto! Which also means the Sho and Chevy SS are out.

Birddog > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:21

Your description reminds me of the SVO Mustangs. Crude but good.

I'm a "Malaise" apologist except for the Granada. Ford was still doing the Lido Shuffle by keeping that Falcon chassis going.

RyanFrew > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:25

Not going to find a 1M in that price range without a ton of miles. Decent examples around me are going for $50k

JasonStern911 > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:25

So, what did I miss Oppo?

Used cars - especially well maintained ones. I stand by the fact that the C5, C6, 986S and 996 are absurdly cheap for what you get if you're patient enough to look around, find a nice example, have a pre-purchase inspection done by a competent mechanic trained in the vehicle, and, in the 986S/996 case, you're willing to do some preventative maintenance once you purchase it.

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:25

When I moved here in 2001, I did the math - to keep the SHO garaged, insured, maintained, and titled, would cost about $8,500/year. I doubted I would spend half that on rental cars, so I sold it. Sigh. In reality, I drive maybe 5 times a year, if that.

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:26

Pretty sure a manual is coming to the SS.

AthomSfere > RyanFrew
03/26/2015 at 00:27

For the 1M!?

Regardless, not a primary contender ;)

AthomSfere > RyanFrew
03/26/2015 at 00:27

So they keep saying! They really should.

AthomSfere > JasonStern911
03/26/2015 at 00:31

Used cars are certainly not out! I just wanted easy access to test roughly the cars I was looking at, instead of chasing the used ones all over town.

C5/ C6 and the Porsches. I need something that can seat at least one person occassionally for short stints. The Scion doesn't really pass this test with two people of my size in the front (~6') but I can make it work with a shorter person in front and a much shorter person behind that.

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:31

Ah, but what a wonderful city! I fully intend to live there at least briefly some day.

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:32

;)

Kinja'd!!!

AthomSfere > Birddog
03/26/2015 at 00:33

Of all the late 70's cars to defend...

Actually, my Mustang hate didn't happen until Fox bodies... and didn't end until about 2015 ;)

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:34

Bring money. But we'd be happy to have you.

AthomSfere > RyanFrew
03/26/2015 at 00:34

I need more stars to give! And I have a new top recommendation for anyone who wants a muscle/ family car !

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:36

AS in New Yorkers?

New York, Tokyo, Santiago, LA... Places I would drop everything to live in :D

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:36

Yep. Closer to $60k, actually.

Here's one with 50,000 miles for $55k.

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/…

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:38

I still don't see it, personally. If I wanted a muscle/family car, there would be a long list ahead of this. M3 & M5, Hellcat Charger, S4 & S6.....

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 00:39

Sig Other is Japanese - would love to live in Tokyo. And yes - this city is welcoming despite more than a few assholes. Like me.

AthomSfere > RyanFrew
03/26/2015 at 00:58

Charger doesn't come with a manual... Deal breaker for me...

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 00:59

Sweet, so I'd fit right in on days where coffee supply was low.

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 01:10

Yeah.

And hey - what about a CPO Boxster? Drove one back in '99, and I always thought that's the Porsche I'd own. 911 is too lary ....

AthomSfere > Steve in Manhattan
03/26/2015 at 01:12

Used late 90s Boxters are cheap enough, and even some earlier 2000s (up to about 09 I think) but... I think I'd lean 944 personally.

Steve in Manhattan > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 01:18

Yeah, but a 5 or 6 year old Boxster? Even the early one I drove - perfect balance, mid-engine - chuck it into a corner, and you're guaranteed to come out the other side looking good.

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 01:35

Deal breaker for me also, but I don't think I'd mind it in a car like that, especially if I knew that the car literally couldn't have a manual.

RyanFrew > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 01:37

As someone who owns a 944 and is expecting to buy a '13ish Cayman within the year, I'd challenge you to test drive those two and still walk away in favor of the 944. That said, great taste haha.

duurtlang > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 05:00

My father in law has a Magnum RT (in Germany...). Some of the interior materials, like the entire door panels, wouldn't even be considered acceptable in a $9k (when new) 1995 citycar here. The first time I sat in that Dodge I was stunned by that interior.

shop-teacher > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 07:12

The Chevy SS got a manual option for 2015, just FYI.

JasonStern911 > AthomSfere
03/26/2015 at 12:47

The C5/C6/986S are all two seaters. They'd do fine carrying a single passenger.

The 996 has back seats, but the running joke is that they're designed to hold golf clubs and are only called seats for insurance reasons. They're much more effective than the back seats in the air cooled 911s, but still only as effective as the ones in the Scion. Maybe replace your guy friends with hot, skinny girls? They seem to fit alright... :)

Regardless, buying a C5/C6/986S/996 would leave you ahead on the depreciation/resale curve, offsetting any increase in maintenance. And in the C5/C6 case, presuming you live in America, the parts are cheap - by sports car standards, at least.